In The Media

Rich Zeoli offers communications, political, and current events commentary as a frequent guest on national television and radio. in addition, he is a talk show host on CBS Philly Talk Radio 1210 WPHT. He has been interviewed by major publications including the New York Times, the Washington Post, and Politics Magazine. Below is a sampling of Rich Zeoli’s media appearances.

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Richard Zeoli has provided insight and analysis on the speaking styles of well-known politicians and celebrities including President Obama, Caroline Kennedy, Governor Jindal, and Presidents Reagan, Clinton, and Kennedy, to name a few. He also offers valuable and timely business advice to help individuals increase their marketability by improving their communication skills.

Transcripts from various radio interviews

Interview with Jeff Whitaker

Jeff Whitaker: And welcome to this edition of the Jeff Whitaker Show. Have you ever tried to speak before a gathering? Maybe you have been called to do public speaking, maybe you have been someone who you know a spokesperson all of a sudden for your company or your organization, your club and you get nervous. I mean you know what Jerry Seinfeld said. He said everybody… he said, “People are more nervous about speaking than they are dying” which means that everybody at a funeral would much rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. Think about that one for a while.

We are going to be talking today with Richard Zeoli. He is a guy who deals with public speaking and he has written the book called the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. What… what brought Richard to our attention was this whole situation that took place with Caroline Kennedy beginning quite a few weeks ago when she was tossed into the mix as someone who was interested in being the senator from New York to… to take over the role of Hillary Rodham Clinton and they started doing interviews with Caroline Kennedy and when news organizations did interviews with her, she was stumbling all over the place and just couldn’t seem to put two words in a sentence back to back and people are… I guess the bar is set so high looking at the family that she comes from and of course her father, John F. Kennedy, who was a great orator and her uncle Ted Kennedy, who obviously you may not agree with him politically, but I mean he is… he is a good orator and you know there was Bobby Kennedy, another one of her uncles who ran for president and you just look at the family and you just immediately I guess expected that she would be articulate when sharing her point of view. She wasn’t. You know lot of people said, “Gee, I am wondering you know how smart is she, how intelligent is she, how able is she to… to handle this role?” and… and then of course there were the other comparisons out there.

There were people who said you know they got all over Sarah Palin for some of the things she said and the way she spoke, but yet the media seemed to give Caroline Kennedy a pass. Well, Richard Zeoli is somebody who helps train a lot of folks in the area of public relations and speaking when you are involved in a public relation situation or maybe involved in a situation where as I said you are speaking before your club, your organization, and you are called to get up in front of a group and he has written a book called the Seven Principles of Public Speaking and it’s great to have Richard with us today and he is going to be talking with us about these issues.

A little bit later on, we are going to be talking about some of the other issues in the news. [laughs] This again, it just… it’s so funny because in light of our interview yesterday with regards to climate change and we spoke with John Zyrkowski. He is somebody who has done extensive research in global warming and today there is an article, Associated Press Article, by Henry Waxman, Senator Henry Waxman is promising quick action on climate change because he says you know that we really don’t have… we really don’t have a lot to… a lot of time here. You know we have got to take some kind of quick action when it comes to global warming. Well, we will talk about that and just what he said come up again. How about this whole inauguration next week? Now, it is a significant inauguration in the country’s history and it is a huge event. In fact, we will cover it live here beginning at 11.35 on Tuesday, the election and it will be in the middle of the Barbara Altman show and it will go from 11.35 live ABC News coverage until 1 o’clock and then of course we will talk about it in the afternoon, but how about have you seen the numbers that this is the most expensive in history, the most expensive inaugural in history. It could approach a 160 million dollars, nearly four times what George Bush’s inauguration cost four years ago in a time when we are in a recession. So, we can talk about that as well and get your opinion on that.

Now, we are being unfair when we say maybe this is just a little bit over the top do you think? But we will handle that issue a little bit later on in the hour, but right now we are pleased to welcome Richard Zeoli. Again, he is the author of the book, the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. Richard, thanks for being with us this afternoon. I appreciate it.

Richard Zeoli: Jeff, it is always good to talk to you. Thanks a lot for having me on.

Jeff Whitaker: You know I told the audience that what brought you to our attention was this whole controversy over Caroline Kennedy and a lot of people you know, they have these expectations, when they see people they know the pedigree they come from, they know… maybe they have these expectations of what type of a person they are and then they open their mouth and they say, “Oh, oh, maybe we are missing something here.” Do you think she has been given a bad rap?

Richard Zeoli: Well, I think that she had a lot of expectations being the fact that her father was one of the greatest orators in history probably. He was certainly one of my public speaking role models and I mentioned him in my book and… but she had big shoes to fill, but really Jeff I think the issue here is that she just wasn’t prepared and she went out there to run for US Senate without taking the time to be prepared and as speakers, we just can’t afford that luxury. Preparation is… it is really crucial.

Jeff Whitaker: I think people can say that well, you know… and I have said this in the past… in my… in my past career as a television news journalist. There have been a lot of people that I interviewed and I can think of one person in particular, a local politician or would be politician who I interviewed and he was just very inarticulate. I mean just could not string two or three words together and we did an interview with him and then we interviewed his opponent and his opponent ended up winning the position and I didn’t know this for a fact, but as I walked away from the interview, I thought to myself it is a shame that in today’s world, someone could actually be the more intelligent individual, the one who has more of his or her act together, but because they can’t articulate in front of the camera because they don’t look good on camera or sound good on the radio, because of that they lose the election when maybe they were more qualified for the job and we can… we can you know say all we want that that’s not fair, but the fact is the world we live in today, perception is everything isn’t it?

Richard Zeoli: Oh, you are absolutely right Jeff and that’s why the inarticulate ones should hire me to help them become articulate, but beyond that, I think that there is an issue here and the issue is that you are talking about becoming an United States Senator or a state senator, state assemblyman whatever the position is. You are talking about communication fields that will help your district, it will help your state. To be in the US Senate and not be able to articulate what’s important to your state, to not be able to stand up there and debate the important issues that we are going to be facing in 2009, the taxes, the economy, two wars, to not be able to articulate what that means for the American people in your state is a real disservice to the people of your state or your district. So, well, I agree with you that people should not just be judged on their communication skills. When you are talking about politics and people in the public arena being able to really fight for their constituents and it is done at the bully pulpit these days, is very, very important to do the job right.

Jeff Whitaker: Do you think that mattered as much a couple of hundred years ago when we didn’t have radio, when we didn’t have television?

Richard Zeoli: Probably not, though when I did research for my book and I was thinking in terms of some of the greater public speakers, really the ones who sort of changed American history, the ones who really fought for American history we can… we remember certain speakers, they even back then were able to give these very eloquent speeches on the floor of the United States Senate or in Congress about different issues that were important to the people back then and of course those speeches wound up being recorded and sent out to newspapers, but they were able to persuade their colleagues back then and that was certainly important in the evolution of America.

Jeff Whitaker: How can a book like yours and what we are talking about today be applied to a lot of the people listening? Because I know they… you know we can talk in theory about Caroline Kennedy, we can talk about national politics, but really, being articulate can have an impact on anyone that’s listening right now in any capability whether it is communicating around the home or communicating in the workplace.

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely Jeff. The reason why I called this book the Seven Principles of Public Speaking, I really tried to lay out a proven step-by-step program starting from principle #1 going all the way up to principle #7 that people could follow to become more effective communicators and it is not just about giving a speech, it’s about being able to be more confident in a company boardroom, being able to advocate yourself on a job interview, being able to… when you have the opportunity to maybe pitch your business at a local chamber of commerce event, all these situations that we have to communicate in today’s day and age, being able to communicate what you do effectively in life gives you an advantage over other people who cannot. So, I would say for anyone who is looking to grow their business or looking to improve their interpersonal communication skills, I think they will find a lot of value in this.

Jeff Whitaker: Rich Zeoli is our guest. The book is called Seven Principles of Public Speaking. As someone who does quite a bit of speaking and gets out in that capacity, I haven’t read through your whole book yet, I just got it the other day, but in reading through, there really is a lot of practical advice in here that anyone can take and when you… when you look at it, it can… if you are a novice at it, it can… it can give you those insight tips. If you are more experienced, it kind of reminds you of some of the things that you know already and kind of gives you the ability to sharpen your skills more, doesn’t it?

Richard Zeoli: Oh thank you Jeff. I appreciate the nice compliment. What I tried to do was make this very easy to read and also a lot of work… a lot of exercises that you could follow along was in the book. Questions, answers, things to think about, really so that you as an individual can examine yourself as a communicator. Think what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses, what I would like to improve about my speaking, would I would like to be more confident, would I would like to get over anxiety, I would like to be able to be persuasive, and throughout the book there is opportunities, little stories of people I have worked with over the years and how they were able to overcome some of their obstacles, so I really try to make it a very hands on book that anybody can walk away with and say, “Okay Rich, I have got some really good tips here. So, thank you for pointing that out.”

Jeff Whitaker: Some people are just born. I mean it is just natural. It just comes to them, but most people you do have to work at it, don’t you?

Richard Zeoli: Well, it is interesting you know. I was hearing you talk about the inauguration, the most expensive inauguration in history. Certainly, some people like President Elect Obama, I think just have a natural gift and they are born great communicators, though I am sure he has been coached because even great athletes have… have coaches who work with them everyday. I do think though all of us in whatever field of life we are in can become better and one of the first principles, principle #1 is for people to stop trying to be a great public speaker. You know you don’t have to sound like President Elect Obama or John F. Kennedy or President Reagan to be effective at your workplace or to give a good speech at the Chamber of Commerce. You just have to learn to be yourself and do the best that you can and that’s really I think the first step towards being an effective communicator.

Jeff Whitaker: Let’s talk about… and I don’t want to talk about all the seven principles, first of all we don’t have time to do it and you don’t want to give chance for people to get a hold of your book, but let’s talk about some of the foundational principles. What are a couple of things that you… couple of those seven principles that you laid out that you think is important?

Richard Zeoli: Well, also the idea that when you make a mistake no one notices, but you. So, many people get hung up on little mistakes that they make, tripped up words and they have to understand that really when you make a mistake, the only person that notices is you. The audience has a lot on their mind as that they are thinking about. Also, practice and discipline – I have an exercise in the book called The Crucial Five and the analogy I like to give is if you ever watch professional athletes, standing there, getting ready to play the game, watched The Eagles last Sunday, watch the man on the sidelines, they are focused, their concentration, the five minutes before the game even began and as communicators I think the crucial five minutes before you speak is so important. So, I have an exercise in there to get everybody to a place where they can really say, “You know I am in the zone here. I am ready to get out there and communicate and do a great job.” That’s one of it. Also, becoming a storyteller Jeff, you know you are very good at this and making things very easy for your audience to understand and personal for them and that’s what breaking indicators have to do, to be able to tell stories and give people a stake in the process instead of just standing up there and saying what they do like everybody else. It’s really to apply examples, specific life stories and make the speech really come alive.

Jeff Whitaker: And you know when you look at the people who really do this well, it’s amazing and I… I discovered this with… with television reporting. I took a couple of classes with some of these network correspondents that I really admired and I admired them, but I didn’t know why I admired them and when they pulled apart what it was that they did, like you said, when you look behind everything, it’s really not as complicated as it sounds and story telling is so important for people who are good communicators and I was… I no longer am a member at this point, but I was a member of the National Speakers Association for a while and I can remember hearing a lot of some of those… the greatest speakers all they were were people who took three or four little stories and then tied them together to make up an entire speech, but that’s all it was three or four little stories they combined to make one big speech and it just… it just… it brought you close to them, it gave you an insight as to who they were, and… and stories help you remember things more than just reciting facts and figures and that type of thing.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and the best part about it Jeff is we all have stories to tell. The real question is how many stories do we have to tell about what we do in our business, about what we do in our lives, difference that we make, the accomplishments we have done, we all have stories and one of the reasons why people go to the movies I think and watch television shows is for stories. They want to learn something and some of the greatest movies I have ever seen have really good stories with a clear beginning, a middle, and end, and it’s something that we as human beings I think you know relate to very easily.

Jeff Whitaker: You know a piece of advice that I heard once from somebody, they said, “You know keep a pad of paper with you all the time and observe things that are going on and then think about your own life, rather than open up…” Lot of people open up these Chicken Soup for the Soul books and the Possum, great story out of there, but it’s not their story and if they would have take five minutes and sit down and think about their life and think about the things that they would talk around the dinner table about or talk over the fence to their neighbor about, these are stories that other people would find interesting as well.

Richard Zeoli: That’s absolutely right Jeff. That’s… that’s a great piece of advice you give and people should remember that that their stories, what they do in their life is so important as a speaker. I will give you an example – if you were in the mortgage business and you stand up at a local meeting to talk about a mortgage program you were able to give a family right now in these very tough economic times, that’s a story that people will like to relate to and be able to hear and understand and it will mean so much more than telling them a story about a stranger that they have never met in their life.

Jeff Whitaker: Rich Zeoli is our guest today and the book is called the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. Do you have any horror stories with speakers that you could share with us?

Richard Zeoli: [laughs]

Jeff Whitaker: I mean just things… where things really went awry.

Richard Zeoli: Well, I think we’ve all probably been in the audience and we have heard people go on just a little too long, maybe… I heard yesterday there was a speaker at an event last night that went on for an hour and 20 minutes about trees and people were literally taking their dinner knives and stabbing it into their…

Jeff Whitaker: [laughs]

Richard Zeoli: Their food to indicate how they were feeling. That’s why principle #7 of the book is really to make people understand you don’t have to go on and on, be brief, be prompt, be seated, but we’ve all been in that situation where we have heard speakers and we are just thinking to ourselves, “When is this guy going to shut up?”

Jeff Whitaker: [laughs]

Richard Zeoli: That… that can be a real horror story right there.

Jeff Whitaker: It’s… it’s better to say, “Well, I wish he had gone a little bit longer,” right?

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely. If you can walk out of there and people say, “Ah, you know, you were so good. I would have loved to hear you for another five minutes,” you have really accomplished something there and I always tell speakers, “Look if they give you 10 minutes, try to speak in 8 minutes, see if you can accomplish everything in the 8 minutes.” I always tell speakers, “You speak as long as you need to to get your message across and then not a minute more.”

Jeff Whitaker: What has been your biggest challenge in this… in this business, because I would think that some of these CEOs that you deal with, some of these Fortune 500 leaders or politicians, they think they have arrived, they obviously are in that position because they have some sort of ego and for you to come in and say, “You know what? You are not doing that” or “You have to change this.” Is it difficult from your end and how have you been received?

Richard Zeoli: It’s funny Jeff. There is a… I worked with a pretty large company in New Jersey a few months ago and I worked with all their executive directors one-on-on, about 14 of them and all… I would say 13 of the 14 were incredibly receptive and they wanted to get my analysis and my feedback, we videotaped them, we reviewed their performance and how they did, and there was one guy who sat down and… as soon as the sat down, he looked at me and said, “Just so you know, I don’t need any help. I am a great communicator, I am a great speaker, and I really don’t think that there is anything I can learn from you.” I said, “Okay, well, I will then tell you what? I don’t want to waste your time, why don’t you go back to work?” And then when I reported to the HR Director and the President of the company a little bit later and I told them that story, they said, “Oh, man, he is the one who needs it the most.”

Jeff Whitaker: [laughs]

Richard Zeoli: And yeah… there are certainly people that have an ego, but for the most part and that’s a good example, the 13 other directors, well, they were really appreciative of the fact that somebody was helping them with their skills. Hey, Tiger Woods has four coaches and professional athletes, they go to practice every single day. So, no matter how good you are, you can always still improve.

Jeff Whitaker: Well, I really like the stuff you had to say in this program. I think as you said it’s really practical and for the most part it’s not going to happen overnight with someone is it? I mean it takes time, it takes practice and you start off small and not everyone starts off speaking it, you know it’s not the Super Bowl of speaking. You don’t… your inauguration address that the President is going to give next week, it didn’t start off with there. It started off at probably some little club that he was belonging to where he gave his speech. It takes time.

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely right and if you watch the evolution of this in somebody like Barack Obama, there was a time when he was not nearly as articulate as he is today. It does take time. It does take dedication. It takes practice, but like anything else in life, it’s worth pursuing. There is a great reward in making that devotion to it.

Jeff Whitaker: Who is your favorite speaker?

Richard Zeoli: I would have to say President Ronald Reagan is probably one of my favorite speakers. I always thought he was… he has just such a great ability to really connect with people from the podium and have a conversation with his audience and really capture the emotion. I still remember when I was just very young and Challenger blew up and I remember his speech to the nation after that, reassuring the nation and of course the… his famous phrase he said, “When they slipped the surly bonds of earth to see the face of God,” I mean it’s just one of those great things and of course when he said, “Tear down this wall,” I put a reference to that in my book because again, it’s… it’s a short statement, but it has lived on in history and it is a great example of how words that are short and sweet have power in the long run.

Jeff Whitaker: Rich Zeoli, thank you very much for joining us. The book is called the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. Where could they get a copy of the book?

Richard Zeoli: Barnes and Noble, your local Barnes and Noble has it. You can also go on Amazon.com and order it. If it’s not in your favorite local bookshop, they will be happy to order it for you if you just ask them to.

Jeff Whitaker: Okay. Hang on a while Rich, I want to talk to you out there.

Richard Zeoli: Thank you Jeff.

Jeff Whitaker: We are going to take a commercial break. We will come back with open phone lines, your calls on this Thursday edition of the Jeff Whitaker Show. Stay with us.


In The Booth – KFTM Fort Morgan, Colorado

Jim Bunner: It’s another exciting edition of In The Booth right here on your hometown station, KFTM, in Fort Morgan, Colorado. We just got done talking to our old pal Roger Stone about Caroline Kennedy, Michael Bennet, the whole senate thing going on and there’s more Caroline Kennedy talk coming your way, but you know folks, public speaking is something that politicians should feel confident about. Now, I am no politician. I am a broadcaster, but public speaking is certainly something that I feel confident about and here to talk to us a little bit about how important it is for politicians and well broadcasters too is Richard Zeoli. He is going to talk about some of the techniques that he uses to coach congressmen, governors, CEOs with Fortune 500 companies and others for TV interviews or other speaking events and his book, it just came in today. I just got this book today Richard, the Seven Principles of Public Speaking, Proven Methods from a PR Professional.

Richard Zeoli: Thank you Jim. It’s great to be on your show.

Jim Bunner: Excellent. Well, hey, you know I guess recently Caroline Kennedy, the New York Daily News noticed that she uses a lot of vocalized pauses in her speech and for those of you who are listening and don’t know what a vocalized pause is it’s what somebody does when they go on the air and they just kind of say, “um… um… like… you know…” stuff like that and some of the blogs sites have actually hurt her because of that. Richard, is… is public speaking I mean… getting rid of vocalized pauses, is that one of the first things people need to do in public speaking?

Richard Zeoli: Well, if they want to become a United States senator, I would think it’s probably start. You know I think really their criticism here, you know for Caroline Kennedy, is that she said “you know” something like a 140 times in her interview and it really comes to the point of whether or not she was prepared to really go out there and start talking about the issues that are important to people of New York and why she should become a United States senator and I would say to anyone listening who wants to be a more effective communicator, the first rule is you have to be prepared when you go out to speak.

Jim Bunner: Okay, well, and obviously being prepared let’s the people know that you know what you are talking about and that you have a plan and that gives them confidence, doesn’t it?

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely and so many people come to me because they are… they have anxiety about public speaking. They are nervous, they get afraid. I think it was Jerry Seinfeld who said that public speaking was the number one fear in America, which means more people would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy. So, a lot of people have this fear and I always tell them the real way to overcome anxiety before you have to give a speech is to be prepared, to practice, to be focused, and know your material inside and out, be ready for any situation that comes your way. So many people, they just assume that because public speaking is talking and they talk everyday, that they don’t have to practice, they just have to open their mouth. It’s actually just the opposite. Public speaking is something I think everyone can become effective at, but you have to work at it.

Jim Bunner: Okay. Your first principle is perception and I think that kind of covers a little bit about we have just sat here talking about because first of all your audience needs to be… needs to perceive that you understand what you are talking about and you need to understand how it is that you are going to come across to your audience.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and one of the most important things that I tell people is when you are talking to an audience have a conversation with them. You don’t have to be a great public speaker. This isn’t about great oratory that’s going to change the world. In most cases and Jim just like you have a relaxed conversation with your audience every day and you do a great job of it, that’s what most communicators have to do, just go out there and have a conversation with your audience. Don’t think of it as a grand speech.

Jim Bunner: Well, you know when you say that I have a relaxed conversation with my audience, you are very wrong because actually Richard I catch myself all the time, I say “of course” like every other sentence or I say well, just like this right here, I don’t know what to say and I stop myself like that, but you know I think that that could bring us to our second principle here is that when you make a mistake, nobody cares, but you. You know because just like this, I just say… I have just said that I say of course all the time, yet you say that I am able to have a relaxed conversation and that I am doing a very good job. So, apparently, I am the only person that actually cares that I use the word of course every other sentence.

Richard Zeoli: Of course, you are absolutely right and that is the point really. When you are speaking, so many people focus on their mistakes and they think, “Oh, I stumbled on a word or I tripped on a word, I forgot what I was going to say” and they immediately start assigning thoughts to that. They start thinking “Well, the audience is going to think I am an idiot” or “The audience is going to think I don’t know what I am talking about” when the truth is the audience probably didn’t catch your little mistake because people’s attention spans go in and out constantly. We are always competing with our audience’s attention and if you go to see a movie, you know movie will spend hundreds of millions of dollars in explosions and music and actors to keep your attention riveted for an hour-and-a-half and you are up there with just your… just your voice. So, the odds are always against you keeping the audience’s attention a 100% of the time. So, when you make a mistake remember that no one really cares, but you, keep going.

Jim Bunner: Now how does that differ with politicians though because if a politician makes a mistake during a speech, like for example, let’s take Bushisms, you know, that’s something that the opposition can just use to destroy somebody.

Richard Zeoli: Without question and politicians of course are in a unique category because they have to speak professionally all the time and it’s one of the reasons why George Bush… we see so much criticism for his speaking style is that he is probably not going to rank up there as one of the most eloquent public speakers we have ever had in the White House and one of the reasons why so many people have been so quick to jump on Caroline Kennedy is she also was not an incredibly eloquent speaker, but someone like President Elect Barack Obama, who unarguably, no matter which side of the aisle you are on, you have to say he is a great communicator. He is a very effective communicator. Ronald Reagan was a very effective communicator, a great communicator and so you have to say there that the politicians who are able to communicate effectively to get a message across really are the ones who at the end of the day are able to persuade the people to their way of thinking and I think history shows us are the most effective.

Jim Bunner: Now, your third principle is visualization, which if I understand that correctly what I am visualizing here is that visualization means the person knows what it is that they are talking about and what it is that they want to get across.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and I always encourage people, just like professional athletes, it is something I talk about in my book Jim and that is that there was a time when professional athletes like Michael Jordan would visualize themselves throwing baskets just in their mind without ever even touching the basketball and I would like people to get the same thing with public speaking, to picture themselves in front of a room, giving a speech in front of their company boardroom presenting their quarterly budget report, but to practice that scenario in their mind to see themselves doing it and to feel relaxed and comfortable to tell themselves, “I am just having a relaxed conversation with my audience.” Because your mind can’t distinguish between the real event and what you are visualizing and so the next time you actually go into the event, your mind is going to say, “Oh, yeah, I recognize this and this is… this is okay, this is familiar territory for me and I will just be relaxed.” I mean for most people we don’t really do public speaking every day of our lives. So, when we do it, our minds go uh oh this is not familiar territory for me. So, through visualization we can actually condition our minds to look at public speaking as something that we are very comfortable doing.

Jim Bunner: Well and as far as being relaxed and understanding what it is that you are going to say I think that takes an awful lot of discipline, which is principle #4 and I see here that you actually say practice doesn’t make you perfect, but it does make you good.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right. I crossed out the word perfect because there is no such thing as a perfect speaker. As we talked about earlier, you make mistakes, I make mistakes, if anybody sits on tonight and watches the evening news and counts them how many mistakes the reporters make or the people interviewed make, there will be a lot of them, but you have to practice that and to become very effective, don’t just… if you have to give a speech or you have to give a report at your office, don’t just look at it the day of, really practice it days in advance, read through it, look at yourself in the mirror, practice in front of your family members or your friends, go through it. Athletes… who are some of the greatest athletes in the world football or basketball or baseball, they might be paid millions of dollars for what they do and yet they practice each and every single day. So, even the members of your audience who are listening Jim and are saying, “Well, I am a really good speaker, I don’t need to practice,” it’s just the opposite. You always have to practice no matter how you good you are. There was a… somebody once told me Tiger Woods had something like four coaches and obviously he is the best golfer in the world.

Jim Bunner: Well, principle #5 then is description. You got to make it personal and become a storyteller. Now, I don’t think that that would actually be very helpful to politicians in the sense that if you can make something personal you can kind of connect with your audience which is something that we have talked about earlier in this segment of the show.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and one of the problems that Caroline Kennedy had going back to her is that when she went up to upstate New York on her listening tour, she wasn’t able to connect with the people up there because she hadn’t taken the time to understand their stories and what they are going through. All people love stories. We can relate to stories. That’s why we spend so much money going to the movies and going to see plays and reading books and as a speaker if you can become a storyteller and really just instead of standing up there say at the local chamber of commerce, instead of just standing up there and saying what it is that you do for a living, give them a story about something that your business has done, maybe a life that you have touched or maybe a loan that you have given out or a business you have helped start or charity you contribute to, turn it into a story that has a clear beginning, and a middle, and an end and you will become a much more interesting speaker, your audiences will relate to you and you will feel much more relaxed and comfortable speaking .

Jim Bunner: Well, as far as being able to come up with some of these stories, I would think that would take a little bit of inspiration, which is principle #6.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and the inspiration part of it Jim really has to go down to the fact that it is still easy for us to get caught up with the ideas. We are standing in front of a room talking that we are the most important person in the room, but the truth of the matter is we are not the most important person in the room, the audience is always the most important person/persons in the room and so your job as a speaker is really to connect with your audience, to inspire them, to give them a good message, give them a good story, to think about their needs, not just your own needs as a speaker and that’s why I always tell people when they are speaking, find what it is the audience is looking for. If you are speaking at a business breakfast, give them a helpful tip that might be something that they need. If you are speaking at a school, find a way to motivate. There is always experiences that we can bring to give to our audience besides just telling them the raw facts and that’s what speak to serve is all about.

Jim Bunner: Now the final principle here is anticipation and I think that this is something that just anybody should understand. I mean Steven Spielberg understands anticipation. Walt Disney I am sure understood it. Steven King understood it. You know I just had a conversation with… about the latest James Bond movie with Roger Stone. Ian Fleming understood it. You have got to leave your audience wanting more because then they come right back to you and you gain popularity.

Richard Zeoli: That’s exactly right. What those great directors that you just named have in common is that their movies didn’t go on unnecessarily long. They knew when to end it when they had your attention and the story reached a logical conclusion and so many speakers and we have all been in those situations. We have sat in the seats looking at our watches going when is this person going to finish and as speakers sometimes we think that we have to drone on and on and on and I always tell people if they tell you you have 10 minutes to speak, try to do it in 7-1/2 minutes. Always tell your audience take as much time as you need to tell them your message and not a second more. Be brief and be seated.

Jim Bunner: You know that’s something I can identify with too because when I do my news on the radio, the average listener has an attention span of about 30 seconds. So, we try to keep our news stories to about 30 seconds just so that we don’t you know go on and on with some boring news deal.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and actually I just tuned out there. So, thanks for getting my attention back. It’s a great point.

Jim Bunner: [laughter]

Richard Zeoli: You know but that’s true and that’s why as speakers our job is… I talk about in my book is it is really a tug of war. On one side you have the audience’s attention span and they are thinking about everything from what time they have to pick up their kids to can they pay their mortgage on time, are they going to be able to pay their mortgage, you know they are checking their cellphones and Blackberrys and you are on the other side and you have got your message and you are trying to get your message absorbed by the audience. It’s this constant tug of war and you have to always remember that as a speaker that audience attentions tune in and tune out and your job is to do things to get their attention. Like one of the great techniques I always try to give people is a pause. A good dramatic pause will help capture the audience’s attention and help give them a cue that I should be paying attention to something right now. Yet so many speakers are afraid to pause. They are afraid that if they pause like this giant you know dead air button is going to come on or something, but it’s actually just the opposite. It will help them focus their attention.

Jim Bunner: That’s actually a veteran broadcaster’s trick too. I am going to… I have got a new story here that I want to read to you real quick before I let you go. This just came off the Business Review just today. 44% of New York was surveyed by public policy polling. They say they actually have a lesser opinion of Caroline Kennedy now than before her announcement that she would like to be a senator. 33% say her campaign has made no difference to them. 23% say they actually have a more favorable opinion. The respondents say by better than a 2:1 margin, they would prefer to see Attorney General Andrew Cuomo appointed to fill the seat that’s now being held by Hillary Clinton. Public policy survey conducted a month ago actually showed Kennedy with a large lead at that time with 44% compared to 23% for Cuomo. Do you think that her public speaking skills have had any kind of an effect on this… this popularity decrease?

Richard Zeoli: Without question, absolutely Jim. There is no question that when she started talking and she didn’t really have substantive stance on policy issues or even really any of the issues that we are just facing; the average New Yorker just trying to pay their mortgage, you know my in-laws live up in New York State a beautiful part of the state, and what a lot of people who were not from New York don’t understand is that it is not only just New York City. There is a whole big state out there that borders Canada and borders Pennsylvania. It is a very big, beautiful state and when Caroline Kennedy went up there on her listening tour, the first message that she sent out was even though I have grown up here in New York, I have never taken the time to focus on the issues that are important to you people here upstate. You see when Hillary Clinton moved to New York, she did her listening tour, people gave her a pass because she was living in DC as the First Lady. So, when she came in New York State, they said, “Okay, we’ll let her you know listen to our problems.” With Caroline Kennedy, well, here is someone who grew up here and why wasn’t she tuned in to the problems of the people in upstate New York all along? So, right off the bat that communicated a sense of I think indifference which is really catching up to her now.

Jim Bunner: Right and then one final thing, obviously, if she is losing population… not population, popularity up there, this probably isn’t going to affect her too much now, but I think that just… the fact that she has decided to use the name Kennedy as opposed to her married name which is Schlossberg, I think that would have been meant to help her out a little bit in her bid do you think?

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely. The Kennedy name of course, her father, President John F. Kennedy is one of my public speaking idols. I study him, I study how he communicates, and he also had very substantive policy issues. I mean right now the senate and the house are debating a massive tax cut; when President Kennedy got in, the first thing he did was give America a major tax cut. So, the Kennedy name was a lot for Caroline Kennedy to live up to and I think what she forgot to realize was that in our day and age today, Americans now are so informed. We have the news, we have got great shows like yours Jim, we have got the Internet, we are able to be very informed on the issues. So, if you are going to put yourself out there and you are going to run for the United States senate, one of the most prestigious clubs in the world, you have to be prepared, you have to know the issues and really you have to be able to empathize with the people that you want to serve.

Jim Bunner: All right. Well, once again, Richard Zeoli, the author of Seven Principles of Public Speaking. Richard, where can people pick up this book if they are looking to make a dynamite speech somewhere?

Richard Zeoli: Well, Jim, they can go on amazon.com, they can go on barnesandnoble.com and hopefully, they can ask for it at their local bookshop as well.

Jim Bunner: Okay. Now, you are the founder and president of RZC Impact. What is it that you guys do?

Richard Zeoli: We do public speaking immediate training for politicians and for corporations and also just for individuals who want to become better communicators if they are looking for better job where they want to be better at their job, I work with people one on one and we also do training for larger groups and larger corporations as well.

Jim Bunner: Okay. Now, you know to tell you the truth I thought that this was actually going to be kind of a not fun edition of In The Booth when I was having some of those problems trying to get your phone number to get you on this show, but I tell you what, this has been one of the most fun conversations I have had so far. I would like to have you on again sometime.

Richard Zeoli: Anytime Jim, I would love to be on again.

Jim Bunner: All right. Well, hey, thanks a lot for being on In The Booth. I appreciate it.

Richard Zeoli: Happy new year. Thank you.

Jim Bunner: Thank you and we will have more In The Booth right after this.


Southern Maryland Perspectives

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Welcome to Southern Maryland Perspectives. My name is Dr. Brad Gottfried and I am the President of the College of Southern Maryland. This is a show that features timely topics and guests from around the region and today we have someone who is not from the region. Rich Zeoli from actually all the way up in New Jersey, but we are going to talk about something actually public speaking, something that everyone seems to dread and Rich has a book that has just come out, it’s entitled the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. It’s by Skyhorse Publishing Company and I have to tell you it is a very, very interesting, very informative book that almost… I can almost say Rich, it’s one that’s hard to put down. So, good morning. How you are Rich?

Richard Zeoli: Good morning Dr. Gottfried. Thanks very much. It’s a nice compliment and I really appreciate being back on your show.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: It’s my pleasure. You know they always say that… that people would, between death and giving a speech, many people would pick death rather than having to get up in front of people.

Richard Zeoli: And there’s an old joke by Jerry Seinfeld who actually said that people would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy, which I always think about and just the other day I heard some people say, you know, that timeless you know think solution of picture the audience you know wearing their underpants or you know all kinds of little tricks that people to do to try to overcome this fear of theirs and so that’s really why I wrote the book.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Yeah, it’s interesting because I have always heard that one about the you know the underwear and I have tried it, it never seems to work.

Richard Zeoli: Yeah.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: So, I am always looking for something, but your book has some very, very good ideas in it and so we are going to spend some time talking about effective approaches to when you have to get up and give a speech, how you can not only not dread it, but actually have a good experience and more importantly the audience will have a good experience. Rich, why don’t we… we always start off with why don’t you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?

Richard Zeoli: Oh, sure thing. Well, I have a company called RZC Impact and we do executive communications training. We work primarily with business executives and candidates for public office. A lot of our clients are running for Congress or Senate and they need help with debate prep or media training. We work with some different corporations, especially executives who have to go on TV and do crisis management and that’s a big thing these days with companies experiencing layoffs and their stock dropping and everything else. So, being able to go on TV and reassure people and also we train just everyday people like you and me who want to become better or more effective at their business to make themselves more marketable and they understand that learning public speaking, which is something really in the book, I try to breakdown as don’t think of public speaking as something you do on a stage with a podium and a big audience because a lot of people that trains with me say, “Well, I don’t really give speeches,” but the truth is anytime you are speaking to more than two people, you are giving a speech. You are publicly speaking and so becoming a better communicator is something that can help you in your business, it can help you in your personal life, and it is really something everybody should make the investment.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Very good point. Well, why Rich? I mean you are very busy and you have many clients. What caused you to sit down and actually prepare this for the rest of us?

Richard Zeoli: I think it was a situation where so many people need to demystify public speaking and I have seen very good people who are great communicators one on one. They are funny people though. You can go out to dinner with them or go out to lunch with them and they will… they are interesting, they tell good stories, they make you laugh, you enjoy their company, but for some reason when they get on their feet, something… something changes. They become a different person. They kind of freeze up and really it’s mostly a psychological thing because in their mind they think, “Well, now I am giving a speech” and I have seen other people who tried to emulate great speakers from history and they look at President Obama and they think they have to sound like as good as President Obama to be effective when really they don’t. They need to learn to sound like themselves, to really be themselves, to be the same person they are when they are in front of a large group as they would be when they are having a small dinner party with their closest friends or family. The principles don’t change in that aspect and that’s why I really wanted to get out this principle based approach and so many books I feel that are on the market are based around gimmicks like we joked about earlier. Gimmicks or techniques to help you just get through it. You know, picture a spot on the back of the wall and stare at it or you know… but that doesn’t help you become engaged with your audience and so this book is about principles and not gimmicks.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: And we are going to talk about the various chapters and some of the tricks of the trade so to speak, but one of the… one of the points that you talk about in the book relates to our great public speakers or speakers in general, are they born or are they made or is it a combination?

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and tonight we are going to hear you know from our President, we hear a lot of… from the President in terms of lately the economy and he is someone who is an actually gifted communicator and I reference him in the book, I reference people like President Ronald Reagan, who was I think also you know he is referred to as a great communicator throughout history and people like John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King and you look at these great speakers and you think they obviously are born with a gift and they may be born with a gift, but I can also tell you that somebody like the President has gone through training. He is… people have worked with him to help him become even better and if you watch from his earliest days when he was just a candidate years ago to where he is now, how much he has improved and that’s why I truly believe that everybody can benefit, everybody can become even better and no one can be left out in the cold. I don’t think there is anyone listening or anyone we know who is just beyond hope and I think that with a little bit of work, everybody can get to a level where they can communicate with an audience effectively, they can make their point, they can stay on message, and they can enjoy the process and that’s very important as well.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Well, you know, you have seven chapters and loaded with ideas. This is going to be a tough one Rich, but if you could only talk about one hint, one idea, one thing that a person could do to make them more effective, is there one thing that really sticks out that someone should concentrate on if they can… if you can only talk to them about one attribute?

Richard Zeoli: I would say that the most important thing is what I call principle #1, which is stop trying to sound like a great public speaker and for everybody who is listening, it is so important to realize that too often people make the mistake of thinking they need to sound like someone else and on that point, I think it is important to remember that human communication is based around the concept of looking people in the eye and communicating with them and telling stories becomes so powerful in that aspect and there is a chapter in the book about you know make it personal, become a storyteller. So, I would tell everybody who is listening all of your audience that you have the ability every day in your life to tell stories. You tell stories when you come home from work at the end of the day, you tell stories about how your class was, you tell stories about what you want to do with your life, you tell stories about where you have come from in your life and we naturally as human beings are storytellers. When you get up to speak in front of an audience or address the company at the boardroom or address the class, don’t just tell them what it is you do because that would be trying to sound like a “public speaker;” instead, communicate to them like you would by being yourself and that is to you know think of the story that you have to tell. So, an example would be to stand up at a business meeting and instead of just telling people where the company needs to go, to give them a story of how we are going to get there or how we have got there based on the past experience because we spend… just the other night the Academy Awards ran and everyone was watching with bated breath to see who would have the best picture of the year, we spend billions of dollars going to the movies and theater for the very reason is that we as humans naturally appreciate the value of a good story.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Interesting.

Richard Zeoli: So, I think that that is… you know that’s certainly one way for us, for everybody listening, to become even more effective as a speaker. You have so many stories to tell. Think about all the stories you have in your life, the stories of everything you have accomplished, what you want to accomplish, your struggles, your successes and write those down. Take your time to really write those down and you will become as effective as somebody like Steve Jobs who I talk about in the book, who when he gave a speech at a college commencement, he talked about the story of his life and it was a really, really effective speech.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: It’s interesting you mentioned the Academy Awards Rich because that morning in the Washington Post, there was an open letter essentially to the recipients how not to do it, not to read lists of names that no one cares about, but truly to engage in the audience you know the struggles that a person has overcome, why it is important to them, and it was interesting you know to listen. Some people really did it very appropriately and very effectively and others it was long lists of thank yous that really had nothing to do with the audience.

Richard Zeoli: That’s a great point Dr. Gottfried. I think that you can tell just by watching that the people that read the list were never truly engaged with their audience. They never had that conversation with their audience and so much of the book, the Seven Principles of Public Speaking is about having a conversation with your audience and to stop thinking about public speaking as addressing your audience so much as it is talking to them and talking with an audience by conversing, of course, they are not going to talk back to you on most occasions, but if you go into it with that mindset, you would never just sit down with someone over coffee and read a list of names to them. You would have a conversation with them and you would weave it in to make it personal to that person who is sitting across the table from you and that’s… that’s a great example right there.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Yes indeed and it was… and it really resonated. Now, Rich as you have indicated and as your book, the title of your book, the Seven Principles of Public Speaking indicates, there are seven… you have seven principles and within each you have got you know quite a bit of subheadings. Was seven a magic number? Did you have trouble coming up with… you know how did you come up with a seven specific ones?

Richard Zeoli: It’s interesting. Years ago I had helped write a public speaking course for a leadership training institute that still teaches it in New Jersey and at the time it was really based on the fundamental I think, now I don’t want to say gimmicks, but it was early in my career and I didn’t really understand that there was something going on whenever people spoke. There was something that happens that regardless of the size of the audience, regardless of who the speaker was and really what they were were principles that seemed to apply every time speakers got up on stage and as I spent more time over the years studying great speakers and that’s what I would, I would… I would sit down and I would watch videos of John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King and Reagan and others and I would really watch them and I would pay attention. I found themes that seemed to recur through all of these great speakers and in my own career as a public speaker I started to think to myself, “Well, what works and what doesn’t and what ties into those other speakers?” and I really realized that it’s not just so much as there are you know seven things you need to do, but seven principles that all weave together to form an effective public speaker and really, you can’t have… you can’t skip one because if you skip for example the principle that says when you make a mistake, no one cares but you, it is very hard for you to actually be able to tell a good story and forget about the mistakes that naturally occur in human conversation. So, you can’t be an effective storyteller unless you are willing to say, “I am not going to worry about the little mistakes I make” and so that’s what I mean seven principles that really kind of build on each other and I feel this book is different than so many other books in the market because instead of just giving you strategies and tips and techniques, this is a step-by-step, a real program so to speak.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: No question about it. Well, let… let’s jump in. I don’t know if we are going to have time to do all seven, but each chapter was just loaded with not only the theory and ideas behind it, but also great examples and you have mentioned the first one about you know don’t worry so much about being a great speaker, but you know so many people, they have to give a speech and the first thing they do is they sit down after… I guess after they ponder what they are going to talk about, is they prepare notes and people will come up with note cards and often times they will read the note cards or refer to them, what do you suggest for someone who has to give a speech, notes, no notes, combination? How do you suggest a person go ahead you know should address that?

Richard Zeoli: It’s an interesting question and I think it really depends on the person. I would never want to say that what works for you or me would work for someone else, but I will say that it’s important as a beginning speaker to really take the time to figure out what makes you comfortable. Some speakers feel very comfortable having something in front of them. In that case, I would recommend using no cards. Don’t write a speech down and try to read a speech word of word because that’s not going to be authentic. What you should do then is write down your main points on index cards and literally have the cards in front of you and practice at home with the reading of the index cards. And index card should say on it for example opening and at this point tell the story of… say hello and tell the story of how you got here and welcome everyone and quickly state the point of your speech and then flip the card over and then on the second card should be something about the opening of what the main part of speech is going to be about. Tell the audience that you are going to show them how 10% profits can be realized or show the audience how by adding this class to the curriculum, things are going to benefit the school and flip the card and go to card #3 and that way it helps you organize your thoughts in a cohesive manner, but it doesn’t rely on you reading it and to do that you have to as a speaker, you have to agree that you are going to make mistakes because I don’t care who you are and if you spend time tonight watching the anchors on national news shows or you watch the President, you are going to hear mistakes if you pay attention to them.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Right.

Richard Zeoli: So, you have to get over the fact that a lot of people feel that they should write a whole speech out because they think it will insulate them from making mistakes and it’s just the opposite.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Very good point. Well, let’s talk about starting a speech because it seems like that seems to be the most important point, in other words, if you can get through that first minute or so successfully, then perhaps it gets a little bit easier. So, how do you suggest a person actually begin their speech?

Richard Zeoli: Well, one of the things I won’t suggest to someone is to use humor as a rule because so many people feel that way, “Oh, God, if I can get up there and I can just tell a joke and then I can lighten everybody up and then I will be fine. I will get over my nerves and I will move on. The audience will love me.” Well, that’s fine until you get up there and you tell a joke that bombs and now you are uncomfortable for the rest of the speech and so, what I tell people is, “Look, if you are not someone who is comfortable using jokes and don’t use jokes.” [Inaudible] never tell a joke, but it’s fine to tell a funny story and most importantly make sure it’s G rated. I can’t tell you and I am sure you know Brad how many people have literally ruined their careers by telling a joke that offended someone in the audience and that’s the other thing. If you are going to get up there and tell a joke, you got to make sure that it’s… a) it’s G rate, b) it’s really a funny story and not like a knock, knock joke or something, and c) you are comfortable telling it. You have told it before, you know how to tell it, you know the reaction, otherwise, you are going to get up there, you are going to say something, if it falls flat, the audience won’t care, most likely offend them, but you will probably feel uncomfortable for the rest of this speech. So, really the best thing that you can do in that opening minute is to truly connect with your audience and by connect I mean to take the time, to take your breath, to look your audience in the eye, just sincerely thank them for allowing you to be there, and sincerely thank them for listening to you. When an audience makes the decision that they are going to open up their ears to you, they are sacrificing a lot and as a speaker you should be… you should really be grateful for that because they are giving up their time, their precious time, and their concentration to pay attention to you and so the… the most effective thing I think you can do is to genuinely thank your audience for listening to you.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Very good point and how many people do we… do we encounter giving a speech who are so oblivious to the audience that they just… almost like being selfish, they just go on and on and on, they have already lost the audience, but they still keep going.

Richard Zeoli: Oh yeah. I mean I am sure we all have heard someone who just talked so long and we say, “When is this person going to just shut up you know and move on?” and the goal here really should be when you get to a place where you have spoken just the right amount of time that your audience actually says, “Oh, boy, I wish you would have went on for just a few minutes longer.”

Dr. Brad Gottfried: No question about it. I am with Rich Zeoli this morning and we are talking about his new book, the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. It is published by Skyhorse Publishing Company and Rich, how can we get a hold of a copy?

Richard Zeoli: Well, the… I have a website for the book, which is 7principlesofspeaking.com. You can go on there and read about the book, read some reviews, listen to some… some media reviews of the book and you can also find the book on amazon.com, barnesandnoble.com. It’s… it’s in Barnes and Nobles stores around the country. So, you can also go to your favorite bookstore and ask them to order it for you.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: And what I like about it is it’s a paperback and it’s… it’s very reasonable, it’s only what? 14.95.

Richard Zeoli: Well, with these tough economic times, that’s certainly important.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: No question about it. Well, let’s go over to chapter 2 and you have alluded to it, it’s not an[Phonetic] issue of perfection and I love… you basically mentioned this, you don’t probably have to go back over it, when you make a mistake, no one cares, but you, that’s how you actually started off and this is something that happens to me all the time on this show. People ask do we edit and I basically try to put them at ease and say no and no one is really going to know that an error has been made and usually I am the one who makes it.

Richard Zeoli: You make it, your guests make it, God knows I have made several this morning on your show and that’s just how it is and everybody listening should take the time to realize that part of connecting with an audience is to… is by being a human being. We connect to people we understand and we can relate to and human beings make mistakes. So, if you want to be a speaker that the audience really can relate to that they say, “Well, this person is just like me” then you are going to make mistakes. Otherwise, your audience isn’t going to relate to you because you are going to say this person is phony or this person is just too good and I can’t relate to them and that’s not where we want to be.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Now, are there some ways that you can tell if you are really connecting with an audience or if you are turning them off and you really need to move in a different direction?

Richard Zeoli: Well, it’s an interesting point and you have to be careful by when you are speaking to not spend so much time analyzing yourself because when you do that, you are not really connecting with an audience and so what I always advice people to do is to watch their eyes. If you can connect them with your eyes, in other words, if they are looking at you and you are looking at them, you have got them. They are connected, but don’t feel badly if an audience, if you look at the crowd and someone is checking their Blackberry or you know writing something down, they may even be taking notes about you, you never know, but you have to remember that people have a lot on their minds and don’t make the mistake of assuming just because you are standing up there in front of a crowd that everybody is going to just drop what they are doing and instantly focus on you. Human beings have a lot going on. We have got mortgage payments to think about and our jobs and our kids and everything else and attention spans naturally wander. You know to give you the Hollywood example again, Hollywood spends… you know hundreds of millions of dollars to create a movie to keep us riveted for 90 minutes and we still… our minds wander when we are watching a movie and you are up there with just words and so you have got to compete with people’s naturally wandering attention spans. In other words, when you look at the crowd, if you don’t feel that they are 100% with you, don’t totally… you know don’t stress out by it, don’t think to yourself, “I have got to… I have got to stop. I am not doing well.” It may not be that at all. It may just be a situation that we are dealing with people who have just a lot on their minds. So….

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Well, let’s talk about eye contact because it was interesting, not that long ago I was in an audience, a gifted speaker was interacting with the audience and I noticed though that he was not making eye contact. He… it looked like he was, but then when you… when you actually, when he looked in my direction, I could tell he was definitely not making eye contact. You have mentioned about focusing on a spot on the back wall. What is your suggestion in terms of how important is making that eye contact?

Richard Zeoli: In my opinion eye contact is fundamental if you are going to really contact with people and eye contact is very difficult to do and that’s why in that example you just gave, he probably wasn’t looking at people in the eye. One of the things that I would just remind people is if we believe that public speaking again is just having a conversation with an audience, you would always want to look people you are having dinner with in the eye when you are talking to them at the dinner table and same philosophy has to apply when you are speaking to a crowd. Now, it may make you a little nervous at first to look at somebody in the eye, but with practice, it will become easier. In fact, most speakers tell me the first time they get up at a podium, they are very nervous, but the minute they actually look people in the eye and connect with them, their nervousness goes away and they are surprised by that because they think it’s the opposite. “Oh, if I look at somebody I will be even more nervous.” The reason why the anxiety tends to go away when you really take the time to focus on looking at your audience’s eyes and really scanning the room and looking at their eyes is because your brain is familiar with that. Your brain then instantly says to you, “Hey, wait a minute. I know what’s going on here. This is just a conversation. Forget about the fact that I am standing up I am looking at… I know this, I have done this before,” but if you don’t look at people in the eye, your brain is very confused because it doesn’t understand what you are doing because normally when you are speaking to people, you are doing what? You are looking at them in the eye. So, look at them in the eye, you’ll… you’ll calm down, you’ll focus more, the audience will be more connected to you and that’s going to even make you a better speaker as the speech goes on.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Interesting. Well, another chapter, actually chapter #3, deals with visualization. Now, what is that and why is it so important Rich?

Richard Zeoli: It’s funny. A lot of people in sports use visualization all the time to become better and better athletes and it’s one of those things that, especially in business, people say, “Well, that’s… that’s kind of hokey, I don’t know why we would use that,” but as I work with very prominent CEOs of companies, who are millionaires and I get them to visualize themselves giving a speech in front of a crowd, they tell me that they feel a new state of relaxation and a new way to communicate with people that they have never experienced before and they love it and it’s very easy to do. We can all do it. It’s just a matter of creating a scenario in your mind where you picture yourself speaking in front of a crowd and I have taken clients before to a venue. I had one client, she is on the news and she was giving an award show presentation in New York City at a big hotel and so we went to the hotel the night before the presentation and we looked at this ballroom, which was about to have a 1000 people in and TV cameras and it was a nationally televised show and she was going to be up there with like Chris Rock and some others and I had her stand up there in front of this empty room, close her eyes, and picture the entire place filled to the brim with people and to picture herself giving the presentation and she practiced that long enough that when the time came for her to actually walk out on that stage, her brain again said, “Oh, I know this. I have seen this before. This is okay” and it becomes familiar. Visualization is so effective that professional athletes use it all the time to such a degree that I think it was Larry Bird, the famous basketball player who was filming a car commercial and he used to visualize his free throw shot in his mind over and over and over again and when it came time for him to actually try and miss on purpose for the car commercial it had to take… they had to do like 28 different takes.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Oh interesting.

Richard Zeoli: Because every time he would go to shoot the ball and try to miss, his mind would self correct and get that ball into the basket and that’s just one example of how effective visualization can be.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Interesting. Right then, chapter #4, you deal with discipline and the critical fives. What is that?

Richard Zeoli: The critical fives, you know you have to think to yourself you watch professional athletes on the field and the five minutes before the game goes on, you look at their eyes and there is just such intensity and focus that five minutes before that they are supposed to go out there and play the game and as speakers if you are sitting there and you are ready to go on, I want you to take that five minutes before you are called upon the stage to really focus on what it is you are going to say, to close your eyes, to visualize yourself up there, to picture yourself before that crowd; if circumstances prevent you from closing your eyes, that’s fine. You can still picture it in your mind, but you need to put on your game face five minutes before you get on stage and you are going to feel more confident than you have ever felt before as a speaker.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: I am going to skip over as we are coming towards the end, but chapter #6 on inspiration.

Richard Zeoli: Inspiration – you mentioned earlier Brad a great point about so many speakers forget about the audience and think it’s all about them. You are not as a speaker the most important person in the room. Your audience is. Remember your audience, serve them by giving them a speech that’s memorable, that’s short, that means something to them and respect their time.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Interesting and it gets then to chapter #7, anticipation.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right and what we talked about earlier about knowing when enough is enough. Now, Dr. Gottfried, you are a well regarded historian on Gettysburg and I know you know this that when Abraham Lincoln gave a Gettysburg address, he spoke for about 2-1/2 minutes and the Governor of Pennsylvania, who spoke before him spoke over two hours. Now, I don’t know, I am sure you do, I don’t want to ask, but I don’t know the name of the Governor of Pennsylvania and probably most everybody listening doesn’t know and Lincoln spoke for 2-1/2 minutes and that’s recorded as one of the best addresses ever given in the history of mankind. So, it’s a great point, you don’t need to speak long to be effective.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Very good point and then we see this all the time and I guess this was… I don’t know if it was part of chapter #7, but the full issue of staying on message.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right, staying on message. It’s… it’s about understanding that you have got to respect your audience’s time and if you have got five minutes to speak, you have got to make sure that those five minutes is dedicated to proving your point and don’t talk about stories that don’t mean anything about your message just because you think the audience is going to appreciate a cute little story. No. Respect your audience’s time. Stay on message. Use the valuable time you have to prove your point. If it doesn’t help reinforce your point, cut it from the speech.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Very good point. In fact, we had a commencement speaker way back when… he did a fantastic job, but then continued to move on, went off on a tangent and by the time he was finished, he had lost the power of his message.

Richard Zeoli: And that’s a shame and we see that all too often and that’s why be sincere, be brief and be seated is a quote that really has meaning as we move on into this very crowded technological society of ours.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Now, as we wrap up Rich, who do you consider to be one of the most gifted public speakers in America or the world today?

Richard Zeoli: Well, that’s a great point. There are… there are many out there that I think we can all learn from, both good and bad and it was interesting to me to watch this last presidential election because it really was in so many ways a chance for America to have a very brilliant communicator in President Obama. I think also that we go through history and we could see people who have held the White House, there is so much we can learn from them in terms of how they communicate during times of crisis, whether it’s war or economic crisis like we are going through, but there is also people in our every day life, I was just sitting in church on Sunday and I noticed how my priest was able to really spend time making me understand a particular virtue by just telling a story about someone that he ran into at the grocery store and it was just such a reminder of you can be a very good speaker without having to talk about big things that belong on worldly platforms and how effective that can really be in our own daily life. What I would encourage everybody to do who is listening is to really write down a list and we do this in the book, of who you consider to be the best speakers in modern times or throughout history and what did you like about them? What characteristics do you like? And I will bet you most of the time, you are going to say that what you liked about that speaker is that person seemed to be somebody just like you and somebody you could relate to.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Interesting. You know Rich we could go on for quite a bit longer. This has been really fascinating. What I like so much is so much of it is common sense, it makes so much sense and yet I think all of us need to see it written down in a book and the way you have done it in a way that uses examples for all of us and also I like your idea at the very beginning when it’s not just getting up in front of a group of you know large audience that it’s just a small group of people that you will be dealing with as well.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right. People should always remember that the definition of public speaking is anytime you are speaking and other people can hear it, it doesn’t define how big the crowd has to be and that’s why anyone who has to speak and we all have to speak can benefit from learning and applying these principles because public speaking is nothing more than basic human communication.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Very true. So, I am with Rich Zeoli this morning. I want to thank you Rich for being a guest on the show.

Richard Zeoli: Thank you very much for having me Dr. Gottfried. I always enjoy it.

Dr. Brad Gottfried: Yes, me too and Rich is the author of the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. It’s published by Skyhorse Publishing Company, available Barnes and Noble and amazon.com and if you know someone who is speaking to people or pick it up for yourself that really a great read and I also would like to thank you, our listeners, for tuning in today and I hope you will join me next week for another edition of Southern Maryland Perspectives. Until that time, I am Dr. Brad Gottfried, President of the College of Southern Maryland.

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Male Speaker: Welcome to the Pat Williams Weekend Hour right here on NewsTalk AM 580 WDBO. Now, here is your host, Pat Williams.

Pat Williams: Thank you for joining me on this Saturday morning. It is the Weekend Hour. It’s AM 580 WDBO. Richard Zeoli joins me in the first half hour. We are going to talk about one of my favorite topic. It’s public speaking. Richard has a new book out called the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. How are you Richard?

Richard Zeoli: I am doing well Pat. Thanks. It’s an honor to be on your show.

Pat Williams: Wonderful of you to join me. Why do books keep coming out on public speaking? Are public speakers born or made?

Richard Zeoli: Well, that’s a great question. I think some people, I think like you are probably a born naturally very gifted speaker and I must say I have always admired your speaking ability and your great motivational speeches. I think for the rest of us though, public speaking is really something that can be learned over time and people often get intimated by great public speakers and they wonder to themselves, “Can I ever be that good?” and the reason why I wrote this book is I want people to understand that you don’t have to be a great public speaker to be effective. You can just be yourself and really get results.

Pat Williams: I want to talk about your seven principles Richard. The first principle you talk about is perception and you tell us stop trying to be a great public speaker. What do you mean?

Richard Zeoli: Well, Pat, so much of public speaking as you know like in sports, like in success in life, is a mental game and so often people put big pressure on themselves. They have to be this outstanding speaker and they get up to a podium and I have seen people literally who can sit around a room and have a conversation with people change into a person that they are really not at the podium. They become become very robotic and they are trying. When I ask them, I say to them when I am coaching, “What happened to you? Where did you go and who is this person who took your place?” they say, “Well, I thought this is what I am supposed to do to sound like a great public speaker.” So, principle #1 really says stop trying to be something other than who you are. Learn to be the best at how you can be, but learn to be yourself. Public speaking is about having a conversation with your audience. It’s not about fire and brimstone. It’s not about trying to change the world so much as it is about connecting with other people and that’s something we do in our lives every day.

Pat Williams: Principle #2 you call perfection and you tell us, when you make a mistake no one cares, but you.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right. That’s right Pat. I think so much of people when they get up to speak, they are always worried about making a mistake and saying the word “um” or tripping on a word and they honestly think the audience may stare at them and wonder “Who is this idiot up at the podium?” But the reality is that everybody makes mistakes when they are giving speeches and the audience doesn’t really know that a mistake has happened. So, the key is as a speaker just keep going. Be in the moment and be yourself and do your best and when you make a mistake, keep going because the audience everybody is thinking about their own things in life. We all have things on our mind and so the idea that the audience might have really heard a particular mistake you think you made probably very slim odds.

Pat Williams: Principle #3, visualization – if you can see it, you can speak it.

Richard Zeoli: Pat I know you know with success and I am sure that in your sports career from baseball and basketball, you have probably used visualization all the time to get results and I know you probably tell the team, the Orlando Magic to use visualization. I want speakers to use visualization as well to imagine themselves behind that podium before they get up to give a speech, to picture the room, to picture the audience, to picture themselves standing up there at the podium delivering a speech and feeling in their minds, feeling relaxed, feeling confident and if people do that and they practice that visualization skill and apply it to public speaking, they will see tremendous differences. I mean I have worked with clients all over the country who have been afraid of public speaking. When we practice visualization together, their anxiety over public speaking literally went away.

Pat Williams: The fourth principle Richard you teach us is discipline – practice makes perfect and then you scratch out perfect and you said practice makes good.

Richard Zeoli: That’s right Pat because there is no such thing as perfect in public speaking and that really takes us back to principle #1. You know all the principles here in the Seven Principles of Public Speaking are all interconnected and that’s why I think this book is so valuable because it builds on each principle before it and what this principle says is you need to practice just like in sports, just like in life, just like in any area of life that you want to be good at, you have to do it consistently. Consistency is key here in success and… but so often we take communication granted. You know we talk all the time, so we think to ourselves, “I don’t really have to practice public speaking. I talk all the time,” but when you really should practice public speaking because many times your business depends on it, your livelihood depends on it. So, I encourage people to practice five, ten minutes everyday in front of a mirror with a tape recorder so that they can be really good and I tell them even when you get good, you never stop practicing. You have some of the most talented athletes in the world, and those guys practice every single day. So, even when you get to a level where you feel really good, you still have to keep practicing, but remember there is no such thing as perfection and that takes us back to principle #1.

Pat Williams: And remember that Tiger Woods has three different coaches in his life and he is the best golfer of all time.

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely and the most talented athletes in the world look to great coaches like yourself and so many others. They never stop practicing to be absolutely the best they can be.

Pat Williams: Principle #5, you call description – make it personal and become a storyteller.

Richard Zeoli: So much I think of success Pat is really about relating to people in life and I know in some of your great motivational speeches, you have told a lot of great stories about raising your children and I love the story you have on your website about, the joke about Mark Twain about raising a kid and you have got really good stories and stories are a great way to touch an audience and relate to an audience and we are natural born storytellers as human beings. That’s how we first began communicating with people was through stories. So, what I encourage people to do is when you have to get up at an event, talk about your business, talk about your product, don’t you stand up there and tell everybody what you do. Tell them a story about a life that you have helped, tell them a story about a success story that you had, tell them a story about what your business can do for them, make it interesting and a story should always have a beginning, middle, and an end. If you really want to be a great speaker, if you really want to be an effective speaker, learn to become a storyteller and your audiences will appreciate you like you have never imagined.

Pat Williams: The great Jack Canfield said on this show a few months ago that we… our brains are Velcro’d to stories. In other words, they hold, we don’t forget stories, do we?

Richard Zeoli: No and I think stories have the power to lift us through very difficult times. They have a power to motivate us, they have a power really to change the world.

Pat Williams: Here is principle #6 Richard, inspiration and you tell us speak to serve.

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely. So, often as speakers, you know Pat we get up there and we are in front of the podium, we stare at an audience and we make a mistake sometimes of assuming that we are the most important person in the room. What I want people to understand is you are not the most important person in the room. The audience is the most important person in the room or persons in the room. You have to have a speaker make it about your audience, not about you and speak to serve says how can you serve your audience by making it interesting? How can you empathize with your audience? How can you make them understand that you are there for their benefit, not your own? What can you teach them? What can you inspire them? What information can you give them? The ultimate way you speak to serve, you serve your audience by being an interesting speaker by not going on too long, by talking about things that are relevant to them, and also by respecting their needs as an audience. Time is as you have said many times Pat is our most precious commodity. When you are up there as a speaker, you have respect your audience’s time and make their listening of you useful and beneficial to them.

Pat Williams: And that ties to the seventh principle, you call it anticipation – always leave your audience wanting more. What do you mean by that?

Richard Zeoli: We have all been in situations where we sat there in an audience and we have said to ourselves, when is this guy, when is this person going to stop talking? I mean we have heard so many times speakers that go on and on and on and on and on and on and what I want people to understand here in this principle is you don’t have to talk for long periods of time to be effective. Pat, on your website, you have got clips of you speaking and a few of those clips are a couple of minutes long, some are 30 seconds long and they are powerful, yet people make the mistake when they have to give a speech that it should be 10 minutes or 20 minutes or half hour and often times they are just trying to fill space. People should always try to say their message as long as it takes to say that message, really not a second more. To be concise, to be crisp, to be powerful with their words and respect the audience’s time that they have to get on with their lives and some of the best public speeches you have ever heard, I mean the Gettysburg address… the Gettysburg address was a very short speech. Ronald Reagan said, “Tear down this wall.” That speech in Berlin was a short speech. John F. Kennedy, Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You? It doesn’t have to be long to be effective.

Pat Williams: Richard Zeoli, our guest, he is the author of the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. It’s a terrific read. Skyhorse is the publisher and when we come back, boy, do we have something good for you, a bonus principle and Richard I want you to get into the bonus principle as soon as we come back. It’s AM 580 WDBO.
Male Speaker: Welcome back to Weekend Hour with Pat Williams on NewsTalk AM 580 WDBO. Now, here is your host, Pat Williams.

Pat Williams: Richard Zeoli is the founder and president of RZC Impact, a pioneering communication firm, specializes in executive level communication coaching and strategic messaging. The new book is out. The Seven Principles of Public Speaking and Richard, we have a bonus principle, you call it staying on message. What do you mean by that?

Richard Zeoli: Pat, so many of my clients throughout the years, I really started out my public speaking immediate training with working with politicians, candidates for public office and also leaders and through the years I found that message is really the most important thing in politics and campaigns. Obviously, we just had a presidential election and so much of what we talked about in the selection was which candidate was better on staying on message and that message, which message resonated better with the American people. As speakers, we should also stay on message and that’s important to figure out what should we be talking about, how do we build our case as speakers. There is something I like to call the credibility connection because when you are up there speaking in front of an audience, they automatically view you as having credibility. What you need to do as a speaker is reinforce that, reinforce your credibility on your topics. So, if you are standing up and you are talking about your business, talking about say your businesses mortgages, you should give the kinds of information that people look to you and say, okay, this person is an expert, this person knows what he or she is talking about and staying on message is building your case, it’s reinforcing your point. It’s finding stories and examples that reinforce your message to make it stronger and if it doesn’t make it stronger, cut it, get it out of the speech. Your time is valuable and so is your audience’s, so make it something that builds your message, builds credibility with that audience and the audience will appreciate it and look to you as a real expert in the field.

Pat Williams: Richard, I am going to ask you to do a little evaluation. I am going to give you the four candidates and you evaluate them as public speakers. Are you ready?

Richard Zeoli: Absolutely.

Pat Williams: Senator John McCain.

Richard Zeoli: John McCain has been very effective of talking sincerely to the American people. When the American people hear him speak, they see someone who is very genuine, very sincere, someone that you could tell a very personal story to and he would respect and understand and someone that you could trust. I think that has been his biggest contribution here in this race. He doesn’t try to be a great public speaker. He is a great example of principle #1. John McCain does not try to be anyone other than who he is and he has been very effective at that and I think people look at him and say, “There is a very genuine person” when he is up on the stage. So, we can learn a lot from that.

Pat Williams: Governor Sarah Palin.

Richard Zeoli: Governor Palin, when she started to also I think follow principle #1 and be herself and stop trying to be someone other than who she was and early on there were interviews where everybody said, Katie Couric and some others where they had some tough interviews for her and people said she was trying to sound like a vice presidential candidate as opposed to just being herself and since she started to just try to be authentic, the real Sarah Palin, she has been connecting with audiences all over the country and whether you agree with her or not, you have to admire her ability to really rev up a crowd and connect with an audience. So, again, the principle here that we can learn from her is don’t try to be a great public speaker, don’t try to be anything other than who you are, be your authentic self.

Pat Williams: The next one is Senator Barack Obama.

Richard Zeoli: Senator Obama has I think really exemplified Pat principle #6 which is speak to serve. He has a great ability to empathize with his audience and empathy is a great human skill. It basically says I know what’s like to be in your shoes. I can walk a mile in your shoes. He… when he gets out there and he speaks in front of an audience, he has the ability to make them feel like he truly understands what it is that they are going through, especially right now in these tough economic times. So, his ability to empathize is because he tries to speak to serve his audience and their needs and as speakers we can look to that and say “I need to connect with my audience by thinking about how my message can serve them and always taking the needs of my audience into account.”

Pat Williams: And then Senator Joseph Biden.

Richard Zeoli: Well, I think probably Senator Biden at this point I would have to say principle #7 would always have to apply to him which is essentially don’t talk too much. Talk in a crisp way and stay on message, but don’t get to a point where you are basically talking for the sake of talking because that’s where mistakes happen. Communication needs to be very crisp and concise. One thing that Senator Biden has done very well is when he has made a mistake, he has acknowledged his mistakes and as speakers, we should remember that too. If we are up there in a situation and we forget to really concentrate, if we forget to really acknowledge someone, we say something that really isn’t correct, we should try to take responsibility for that as soon as possible.

Pat Williams: What’s your reaction to this whole issue of fear? Every time they do a poll in our country on fear, Richard, the #1 fear always is speaking in public even above death or snakes or spiders or lightening strikes or shark bites. What’s your thought on fighting through that fear?

Richard Zeoli: We have to Pat. You know that… as you have said so many times in your outstanding career, fear is a real roadblock to success and we have to overcome that and I think that we really can as speakers, as communicators. Public speaking can help your business grow, it can help improve your good communication skills, it can improve your relationships with people, it can give you more confidence. I have seen people who have learned how to communicate in public and in their interpersonal communication life, within their own family or within their own office environment, they felt to be more confident speakers and they felt that they are more effective. We have to get over that fear and I think we have laid out here real concrete system that will help you get over it, but you got to do the work and like so many times in your career Pat you said it, you can hear things a million times, but you got to do the work and so what I tell people is you have to spend the time doing the visualization exercises and see yourself in those situations feeling confident. You got to take the time to practice and you have got to take the time to convince yourself that you don’t have to be turned into… you don’t have to turn into something you are not. You have to get up there and be yourself and connect with an audience, but don’t try to be an inauthentic person because that’s one way that you will feel less confident and that leads to fear.

Pat Williams: What can we learn from the great speakers of the ages? I will give you the name of a man or a woman we generally associate with greatness in speaking. Give me a quick lesson. Abraham Lincoln.

Richard Zeoli: Abraham Lincoln had the ability to again empathize with people. The nation was going through a very obviously devastating war and he had the ability for both sides of the people on that conflict to empathize with them and tell them that we will get through this, we will come back together; that gift of empathy is so important.

Pat Williams: How about Lou Gehrig and his farewell speech at Yankee Stadium, July 4th, 1939?

Richard Zeoli: Luckiest man in the world. You know, that was such a powerful way to basically say that no matter what problems we have in life, we have to find the good in every situation. We have to be grateful for all the gifts and the blessings we have in life and when you are up there at the podium, you are speaking in front of a crowd, remember that your audience, they have hard times too. They are going through their own struggles and the more you can connect with them and understand that just like Lou Gehrig did that day in Yankee Stadium, more they will look to you and appreciate it and admire you for being so honest.

Pat Williams: Winston Churchill.

Richard Zeoli: Winston Churchill went through World War II. He will always be remembered as one of the greatest leaders to ever walk the earth because he had the natural ability to say to people, “We will get through these tough times together.” His ability to say to people, we will get through it together and never Pat Williams:give up, never give up, never give up. I still say never give up to myself whenever I am facing a situation I don’t think I will get through and he had that ability to say to people “No matter what the obstacles, you can get through it. Never give up.” Great way to inspire people.

Pat Williams: President John F. Kennedy.

Richard Zeoli: President Kennedy had the ability to stare people in the eye. You know my favorite speech was when he went to West Virginia and stood out in a square and confronted people who were afraid to vote for him because he was catholic and he looked them right in the eye and he said, “Here is why you should vote for me anyway.” It’s a great lesson to remind people that even if you confront a hostile audience, you can still win them over if you respect them and you bring them a message that really is thought out and well constructed.

Pat Williams: Martin Luther King Junior.

Richard Zeoli: No man has probably ever inspired and changed the world in our last century probably better than Dr. King and that’s because his ability to inspire millions of people to really believe in the human spirit, to really believe in the power of words, to change the country without violence, the power of words, the power of speeches, and it really goes to the heart of what communication can do. Communication can literally, it can avoid wars, it can bring people back together, it can reunite families. Communication as we see from Dr. King can change the world; it doesn’t happen overnight. We can never, ever let the dream die.

Pat Williams: Ronald Reagan.

Richard Zeoli: Ronald Reagan is a great communicator. I reference him in my book many, many times. Ronald Reagan had the ability to inspire, to make us laugh, to touch us. He also made a few mistakes in his career. Ronald Reagan would make the mistakes and he would smile and he would keep going. Because Ronald Reagan understood that being a great communicator was not about being this person that changed their voice or changed their style, it was about honestly connecting and having a conversation with your audience and he had a conversation with the American people all the time through some very difficult times like communism and the cold wars. He did it by speaking candidly to us and speaking one on one to us.

Pat Williams: Richard, you have done us a great service with your book the Seven Principles of Public Speaking. I am really glad we could visit. Congratulations. How do people reach you? Do you have a website? How do you want people to contact you?

Richard Zeoli: I do Pat. Thank you. My website is rzcimpact.com and the book is available on amazon.com and barnesandnoble.com and hopefully in fine bookstores everywhere and I can’t thank you enough for having me on your show. It’s such an honor.

Pat Williams: All the best to you Richard. Talk to you soon. You have been listening to the Pat Williams Weekend Hour. We have got another segment coming up right after these messages. It’s AM 580 WDBO.